Bookshelf speakers for a sideboard

[JMcQueen]

Just to bring this a little back on track, the conversation has prompted me to give consideration to another approach - DSP room correction. 

What are the views on using an AV amp/dac that has room correction built in? Something like one of the higher end Denons. It'd be a little bit OTT as most of the channels wouldnt be utilized but it could help overcome some of the placement issues. 

 

[DomT]

Could be useful but you still need to factor in that most ‘hifi’ speakers are not designed to work well sitting on a wooden box. Best to home dem a few things and then ask more questions. Maybe a good starting place is KEF LS wireless and something active from pro audio world. 

 

[DomT]

We haven’t heard back from the OP but as I went listening to soundbars today for a similar situation but ended up listening to an amp and speakers sitting on top of a large heavy glass topped hifi unit (c1-1.2m in length) I thought that I should add a few notes. 

We tried a Denon DRA800H amp with three different sets of speakers. The speakers were placed on top of the hifi cabinet. They were from B&W 607, Dali Opticon 2, and Focal Aria. Surprisingly the Dalis and Focals were not boomy at all and had clean sounding bass. We used no eq and there are no adjustments possible on the speakers. The B&W though sounded terrible with a boomy bloated bass. 

So actually a pair of speakers placed on top of a cabinet could work well. The Denon is not a big powerful amp and this obviously helped. Hope that this is useful to someone somewhere. 

 

[dari]

So actually a pair of speakers placed on top of a cabinet could work well. The Denon is not a big powerful amp and this obviously helped. Hope that this is useful to someone somewhere. 

Would u be able to explain how not a big powerful amp helped here?

 

[DomT]

Would u be able to explain how not a big powerful amp helped here?

A big powerful amp can often make speakers sound bigger. A case in point is Quad 99 vs 909 with small bookshelf speakers. Swapping the 99 for 909 sounded like the bookshelf became a floorstander.

My Marantz PM11S2 has an extra octave of bass compared to a Naim Supernait 3. No way I would use the Marantz in my scenario. 

 

[AnilS]

I've Linn Index speakers, close to a wall and quite small sounded very nice before I started to lose my hearing.

I think I still have them in the loft!

 

[dari]

A big powerful amp can often make speakers sound bigger. A case in point is Quad 99 vs 909 with small bookshelf speakers. Swapping the 99 for 909 sounded like the bookshelf became a floorstander.

My Marantz PM11S2 has an extra octave of bass compared to a Naim Supernait 3. No way I would use the Marantz in my scenario. 

tbh, from that response I have more questions than before. 

I have quite the opposite experience; 3 amps: Electrocompaniet ECI5II, Hegel H160 and Hegel H360, speakers: ATC SCM11 and 40... as you go from ECI5 to H360 the output power and damping factor goes up and both SCM11/ SCM40 responds in a way that I can only describe as better controlled bass and improved bass clarity, the speakers sounds leaner as you move to more powerful amps rather than having more bass, the transinet response is improved, it's easy to follow bass line. 

I don't understand how you do you get 'an extra octave of bass'? from Marantz over Naim? or how 'swapping the 99 for 909 sounded like the bookshelf became a floorstander'? 

Not sure what the Naim 3 damping factor is, they usually were around 20? so sounded less dry than amps with higher damping with less control over the drivers adding some richness etc; I wouldn't confuse lower bass with more bass; I've heard room full of 18 inch subwoofers going - easilly - down 20Hz, yet it sounded very lean, precise and clear.. not a sign of bloated bass.. I have also heard portable speaker with 3 inch bass driver producing nothing but bloated bass.

 

[DomT]

tbh, from that response I have more questions than before. 

I have quite the opposite experience; 3 amps: Electrocompaniet ECI5II, Hegel H160 and Hegel H360, speakers: ATC SCM11 and 40... as you go from ECI5 to H360 the output power and damping factor goes up and both SCM11/ SCM40 responds in a way that I can only describe as better controlled bass and improved bass clarity, the speakers sounds leaner as you move to more powerful amps rather than having more bass, the transinet response is improved, it's easy to follow bass line. 

I don't understand how you do you get 'an extra octave of bass'? from Marantz over Naim? or how 'swapping the 99 for 909 sounded like the bookshelf became a floorstander'? 

Not sure what the Naim 3 damping factor is, they usually were around 20? so sounded less dry than amps with higher damping with less control over the drivers adding some richness etc; I wouldn't confuse lower bass with more bass; I've heard room full of 18 inch subwoofers going - easilly - down 20Hz, yet it sounded very lean, precise and clear.. not a sign of bloated bass.. I have also heard portable speaker with 3 inch bass driver producing nothing but bloated bass.

You are entitled to different results if you used different amps and speakers. 

I know what an octave is as I am a musician but I am not a technician so can’t tell you why I heard what I heard. In the Quad example I was at a dealer and they heard it too. I may have bought the Naim if it had had bass as deep as the Marantz (pitch of note not size of note ) but it didn’t.

 

[JMcQueen]

I'm still lurking but the day job and virus outbreaks has pushed this to the back burner for the foreseeable. I have a list of a few speakers that are reputedly okay with being being placed close to walls and now looking at good dac/pre/amp or combined options that will work with them. Was potentially thinking of using a Hegel H90 or similar as that keeps the box count down. 

 

[DomT]

I'm still lurking but the day job and virus outbreaks has pushed this to the back burner for the foreseeable. I have a list of a few speakers that are reputedly okay with being being placed close to walls and now looking at good dac/pre/amp or combined options that will work with them. Was potentially thinking of using a Hegel H90 or similar as that keeps the box count down. 

Would be useful to know the speakers so that we can help with amp recommendations please. 

 

[JMcQueen]

I'm actually trying a bit of psychology today. The GF has gone out so I've brought my system down from the office to show her what it could sound like if I could get decent speakers and bring them out in to the room. I'm trying to sell her on the idea. They sound so much better in a larger room with space to breath and image wider. I normally have them setup in a nearfield arrangement. I tried them on the sideboard (appreciate they're not designed for being close to walls) and they sounded awful. 

 

[DomT]

I think that having the Quality Street in the lounge will help as well!

 

[JMcQueen]

ha ha, Christmas leftovers  :^

 

[ChemMan]

The GF has gone out so I've brought my system down from the office to show her what it could sound like if I could get decent speakers and bring them out in to the room. I'm trying to sell her on the idea. They sound so much better in a larger room with space to breath and image wider.

Given that footprint of the standmounts ,and that room, I think you are screaming out for some Spendor D7s. Aesthetically pleasing, brilliant sound and according to my wife: "tasteful pieces of furniture, unlike all of you ugly amplifiers."

 

[JMcQueen]

Could well be. 

Just had 'the conversation' apparently we can get floor standers, providing:

a) They're either dark oak or gloss white

b) Can be moved in to the corner for when nieces/nephews come to visit or the carpet needs hoovering (so probably 20-30kg max)

 

[DomT]

Could well be. 

Just had 'the conversation' apparently we can get floor standers, providing:

a) They're either dark oak or gloss white

b) Can be moved in to the corner for when nieces/nephews come to visit or the carpet needs hoovering (so probably 20-30kg max)

Good result. Well played. Best of luck. Do you have an idea on a shortlist and price range?

 

[ChemMan]

Could well be. 

Just had 'the conversation' apparently we can get floor standers, providing:

a) They're either dark oak or gloss white

b) Can be moved in to the corner for when nieces/nephews come to visit or the carpet needs hoovering (so probably 20-30kg max)

Perfect, and I'm not kidding.  Fabulous speakers given your requirements.

 

[JMcQueen]

Good result. Well played. Best of luck. Do you have an idea on a shortlist and price range?

Not at the moment. One of the considerations is going to have to be height. Because the arm of the speaker is quite high I dont want a tweeter/mid that is just firing in to fabric. This is my current left channel view. 

 

[DomT]

Not at the moment. One of the considerations is going to have to be height. Because the arm of the speaker is quite high I dont want a tweeter/mid that is just firing in to fabric. This is my current left channel view. 

I have heard Shahinians a few times and liked them very much. Could maybe work?

 

[HoopsOnToast]

Larsen 4.2 :^