I doubt it. There may be some cheaper pre Apex models about, either new or second hand. Apex is obviously a retrofittable upgrade for older models.
My digital journey
- Thread starter Roby79
-
Start date
- Views 33,816
I think your right it’s stil on the market
Crap dealer
Now I’m really curious… what didn’t you like Mac? ( @whitehart )
My dealer stock them to but la voce is not on his website only scala an higher
Anyway I might get my hands on one if I ask him
Roby, At the time I owned a well thought of DAC in the Luxman DA06, but you know how it is, I thought it lacked that wow factor so started shopping around getting home trials. Tried a Chord DAVE which, in my set up, I didn't like, too heavy in the bass and then a dealer persuaded me to try the Aqua and I was really disappointed with it, particularly after the build up it had been given... it wasn't any better than the Luxman, even after trying a different valve and the build quality was sadly lacking.
I left the search for a while then decided to see if a change in my amps would help, the dealer came down armed with an Accuphase E800 and again no real improvement, it so happened he had a dCS Bartok on board for another customer so I asked if I could hear it and just after a few seconds listening I was bold over... God knows what their more expensive models sound like and I won't be finding out any time soon... They do a model below the Bartok who's name escapes me, but I'm sure it won't be too shabby.
Mac
Will try to give it a listen, If I understand you correctly you didn't have real complains. It's just that it wasn't an upgrade from the Luxman, right?
indeed
I saw that already, dont know if it was possible to order it sinds the Brexit
In terms of SQ definitely, but the build quality of the Voce was a big factor too.
Mac
I think you should absolutely get to hear both Voce and Scala and decide what you think. I am almost certain that the La Voce does not have valves....so I'm not sure what Mac actually tested.
Re build quality - I have seen nothing that suggests it is poor - but Mac has got his hands on one and respect his view.
WHF says: For your investment, you get a handsome, weighty product – wider than regular component width at 450mm, while at nine kilograms, it’s way heavier than you’d expect in a DAC. It is fronted by a 10mm-thick slab of aluminium which overhangs the main body slightly to the left and right, and has a gently curved top. ‘La Scala’ is printed prominently in a clean, elegant font at front centre. The cabinet is also constructed from sturdy aluminium, coated with Nextel material which helps suppress physical resonances.
Tone publications says: Beautiful build quality and execution in every way.
I have seen this on Audion re La Voce and La Scala:
The La Scala is a unique beast in the Aqua line up. It is the only one of their three dacs to use tubes in the output stage.
The La Scala does throw a bigger soundstage than the La Voice series and the midrange is a bit warmer and fuller. If someone is looking for a very analogue like presentation the La Scala is the better dac.
With that being said the La Voice Mk III represents the newer more balanced Aqua sound.
The La Voice hits a beautiful balance of having a touch of midrange warmth, a very big sound stage and a very organic flowing presentation.
THe newer MK III versions of the La Voice helps rebalance the presentation from being overlay warm and masking a bit of detail.
One of the strongest endorsements we can give is the fact that Aqua is a product you can purchase one time and be done.
There are very few manufacturers that build a product like Aqua does, most dacs are built on one to three boards, usually a power supply, a main board and a streaming board or digital input board. to upgrade you usually have to replace the main board or trade in to the newer platform.
Open up an Aqua dac and you will usually see, 8-12 separate boards every part of the dac is compartmentalized into a discrete board, power supply, analogue board, digital processing, filtering, digital input etc.
We know of very few companies which offer continuous and affordable upgrades to their platforms via both FPGA and hardware upgrades.
So if you prefer a very organic dac with good resolution, superb build quality and an ever morphing upgradable design, look to Aqua to be a once for lifetime digital purchase.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Picked up my Aqua La Scala mk2 optologic yesterday. My local audio shop here in Michigan let me use a Aqua la Voce mk3 while waiting for the La Scala to come in. I had it in my system for over a month.
‘Let me first say that the La Voce mk3 was a great DAC. And until I got the la Scala mk2 optologic in the house, I would have been satisfied with the la voce.
‘But the La Scala is really something special.
I have duel rel s/3 sho’s subs And focal Sopra 2. From first plugging the La Scala in, it felt like the subs had been turned up. It took a few minutes before I realized that the bass was much more, but also much more defined. Defined but warm at the same time.
Also very nice openness.
just tried apparently with shipping cost this would be 5300€ don't know about taxes or is there a risk etc
But it would make it interesting if it's still available in september when I get my money
By September, you will have heard a wide variety of solutions - and will know how the D2 fits into the hierarchy of alternatives.
FWIW. I personally would put a big value on dealing locally.....and if not local, within the EU.
I will for sure give it a listen
have my own impression
Beside My dealer stock them, or at least have the scala on his website.
This could make it easier to upgrade From the Moon as he would take it in an a little discount maybe
But I want to hear both
You're wright the la Voice doesn't have lamps, checking there website the Scala is the only one
so now got a listen to
La voice & Scala an compare
Spring compare to May (planed next Wednesday)
T&A 200dac
@Roby79 I would like to think that the La Scala will sound like the PL, but on steroids.
What is noticeable from your posts, is how natural and musically engaging you found your system with valves in the chain. With the La Scala, you get both NOS and Valves. It wouldn't surprise me if it jumped to the top of your list.
I think Holo May vs Aqua La Scala vs T&A DAC 200 will be a fascinating comparison
The more I look into the T&A DAC, the more interesting it becomes. From Audiogon:
"One thing my customers and I appreciate about the T+A DAC 200 is that it has a total of six DAC filters that can span a very laid, back organic sound, to a very naturally bit perfect sound to being very punchy and detail-oriented. It’s almost like having six DACs in one and enables the DAC to better adapt with the system synergy. It also means that anyone who compares the two together should comprehensively experiment with all the DAC filters for the most honest evaluation".
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Spring DAC 3 KTE vs T&A DAC 200
Pass Labs XP-30 Preamp
Pass Labs 260.8 mono block amplifiers
Lumin U1 Audio Transport (NOT the Mini version)
Wilson Audio Sasha 2 speakers
As I write this I have about 50 hours on the new DAC. The Holo Audio DAC has been in my system for a year and is very well broken in and sounding wonderful.
Out of the box and into my system, I fired up some of the tracks I know best and commonly use for system set up. Everything from Zhu, Ray Joseph, Lady Blackbird, SBTRKT, London Grammar to Sohn.
All of these artists have a very clean and well recorded presentation, so I can easily decipher where the fault lies when listening.
The first and most obvious change from the Holo to the T+A was the Bass! Wow… I’ve been wondering where the slam and punch has been in these Wilson’s.. I have tried many solutions to pull the clean bass I love out of this set up. I was getting there, but this DAC has me all the way there!
Secondly, it’s got to be the clarity of the vocals. Yes, the Holo Audio is amazing in this regard, no doubt. However, this new DAC has taken the clarity and intelligibility of lyrics to a new level. Its also responsible for revealing small details in tracks that I know VERY well to a new level. There are several tracks from an artist named “Tusks” where lyrics are amazing but sometimes feel a bit mumbled and there are ambient sounds all around you. This DAC pulled out sounds and echoes that I never noticed before, and those mumbles are easier to understand as actual words! Mind you the speakers and speaker cable’s I use are incredibly good at revealing detail. This DAC has exposed new details I was unaware of, which is one of the things I love about this expensive hobby.
Next, it’s got to be the widening of the soundstage. The sweet spot in my room has been pretty limited since I installed the Holo Audio DAC. The sound has been amazing, but I do need to make sure I’m dead center to get the whole experience.
The T+A has broadened the soundstage and made it (sorry) more holographic. I hear better separation of sounds and it makes the listening more engaging, while allowing me to sit off center and still enjoy a great listening experience (yes dead center is still the best, but now I can have a friend sit next to me and we enjoy the same experience!)
The burn in process continues, and I do notice small improvements when I go downstairs to check in after a whole day of burn time. So I expect to hear more details as the hours pass.
Another key point to mention, is that many times when I hear a “cleaner” more revealing system, it comes at the expense of annoying high frequency glare from cymbals or female vocals. The kind of stuff that can drive you nuts and force you to turn the volume down. Thus far, I have not experienced this with the new DAC. This was something I did experience with the Holo Audio at times and figured it was just a poor recording situation.
Interestingly, I went back and forth between the AES and USB connection between my transport and the DAC, and the difference was subtle at best. With the Holo Audio, I much preferred the AES connection to the USB. I think I still prefer the AES connection at this point. I do not stream content from a PC as many do.
Mind you, in the end I have absolutely no dog in this fight. I would have gladly accepted that the Holo Audio DAC was “just as good” and happily retrieved my $7,000.00 dollars from my dealer. I have 45 days to return this new T+A DAC…. But it appears that the new DAC is staying in the setup, unless something changes drastically in the negative direction.
One observation that I did notice that I think the Holo does more consistently is pull vocals forward, which I like. With some tracks I did notice that T+A presented voices a bit further back with instruments. It was weird, because on some tracks the voices were up front and almost startling in how real they presented themselves. So it’s not an across the board experience. Not a huge deal, but it was observed.
From a more personal taste perspective, I absolutely LOVE the look of this DAC in my system. I think T+A did a great job with the fit and finish. The dial is made out of Aluminium! YES!.. the dial is not plastic, nor are the buttons. The set-up menu was super easy to navigate. This is a super high quality piece of gear, much like the Holo Audio DAC.
I know people will say “but you only have the Spring DAC 3 KTE, not the MAY”. This is true, so I can only say that you will need to speak with others who have made that comparison (and ignore those who say the Holo is better with no real experience hearing both side by side). This mini review is intended for those who have the same set up as I do and are on the fence as to which way to go as they contemplate the upgrade path.
I now have over 100 hrs on the new DAC and the listening experience has only gotten more detailed, More dynamic and incredibly well controlled! Every type of music I play through this DAC, is amazing. I finally have a DAC that can play everything from Classical to TOOL! Another level was achieved when I upgraded my AES cable from the already good Kimber Kable Orchid cable to the Synergistic Research Level Three AES cable. I have absolutely no desire to look at another DAC, I'm done.
What is noticeable from your posts, is how natural and musically engaging you found your system with valves in the chain. With the La Scala, you get both NOS and Valves. It wouldn't surprise me if it jumped to the top of your list.
I think Holo May vs Aqua La Scala vs T&A DAC 200 will be a fascinating comparison
The more I look into the T&A DAC, the more interesting it becomes. From Audiogon:
"One thing my customers and I appreciate about the T+A DAC 200 is that it has a total of six DAC filters that can span a very laid, back organic sound, to a very naturally bit perfect sound to being very punchy and detail-oriented. It’s almost like having six DACs in one and enables the DAC to better adapt with the system synergy. It also means that anyone who compares the two together should comprehensively experiment with all the DAC filters for the most honest evaluation".
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Spring DAC 3 KTE vs T&A DAC 200
Pass Labs XP-30 Preamp
Pass Labs 260.8 mono block amplifiers
Lumin U1 Audio Transport (NOT the Mini version)
Wilson Audio Sasha 2 speakers
As I write this I have about 50 hours on the new DAC. The Holo Audio DAC has been in my system for a year and is very well broken in and sounding wonderful.
Out of the box and into my system, I fired up some of the tracks I know best and commonly use for system set up. Everything from Zhu, Ray Joseph, Lady Blackbird, SBTRKT, London Grammar to Sohn.
All of these artists have a very clean and well recorded presentation, so I can easily decipher where the fault lies when listening.
The first and most obvious change from the Holo to the T+A was the Bass! Wow… I’ve been wondering where the slam and punch has been in these Wilson’s.. I have tried many solutions to pull the clean bass I love out of this set up. I was getting there, but this DAC has me all the way there!
Secondly, it’s got to be the clarity of the vocals. Yes, the Holo Audio is amazing in this regard, no doubt. However, this new DAC has taken the clarity and intelligibility of lyrics to a new level. Its also responsible for revealing small details in tracks that I know VERY well to a new level. There are several tracks from an artist named “Tusks” where lyrics are amazing but sometimes feel a bit mumbled and there are ambient sounds all around you. This DAC pulled out sounds and echoes that I never noticed before, and those mumbles are easier to understand as actual words! Mind you the speakers and speaker cable’s I use are incredibly good at revealing detail. This DAC has exposed new details I was unaware of, which is one of the things I love about this expensive hobby.
Next, it’s got to be the widening of the soundstage. The sweet spot in my room has been pretty limited since I installed the Holo Audio DAC. The sound has been amazing, but I do need to make sure I’m dead center to get the whole experience.
The T+A has broadened the soundstage and made it (sorry) more holographic. I hear better separation of sounds and it makes the listening more engaging, while allowing me to sit off center and still enjoy a great listening experience (yes dead center is still the best, but now I can have a friend sit next to me and we enjoy the same experience!)
The burn in process continues, and I do notice small improvements when I go downstairs to check in after a whole day of burn time. So I expect to hear more details as the hours pass.
Another key point to mention, is that many times when I hear a “cleaner” more revealing system, it comes at the expense of annoying high frequency glare from cymbals or female vocals. The kind of stuff that can drive you nuts and force you to turn the volume down. Thus far, I have not experienced this with the new DAC. This was something I did experience with the Holo Audio at times and figured it was just a poor recording situation.
Interestingly, I went back and forth between the AES and USB connection between my transport and the DAC, and the difference was subtle at best. With the Holo Audio, I much preferred the AES connection to the USB. I think I still prefer the AES connection at this point. I do not stream content from a PC as many do.
Mind you, in the end I have absolutely no dog in this fight. I would have gladly accepted that the Holo Audio DAC was “just as good” and happily retrieved my $7,000.00 dollars from my dealer. I have 45 days to return this new T+A DAC…. But it appears that the new DAC is staying in the setup, unless something changes drastically in the negative direction.
One observation that I did notice that I think the Holo does more consistently is pull vocals forward, which I like. With some tracks I did notice that T+A presented voices a bit further back with instruments. It was weird, because on some tracks the voices were up front and almost startling in how real they presented themselves. So it’s not an across the board experience. Not a huge deal, but it was observed.
From a more personal taste perspective, I absolutely LOVE the look of this DAC in my system. I think T+A did a great job with the fit and finish. The dial is made out of Aluminium! YES!.. the dial is not plastic, nor are the buttons. The set-up menu was super easy to navigate. This is a super high quality piece of gear, much like the Holo Audio DAC.
I know people will say “but you only have the Spring DAC 3 KTE, not the MAY”. This is true, so I can only say that you will need to speak with others who have made that comparison (and ignore those who say the Holo is better with no real experience hearing both side by side). This mini review is intended for those who have the same set up as I do and are on the fence as to which way to go as they contemplate the upgrade path.
I now have over 100 hrs on the new DAC and the listening experience has only gotten more detailed, More dynamic and incredibly well controlled! Every type of music I play through this DAC, is amazing. I finally have a DAC that can play everything from Classical to TOOL! Another level was achieved when I upgraded my AES cable from the already good Kimber Kable Orchid cable to the Synergistic Research Level Three AES cable. I have absolutely no desire to look at another DAC, I'm done.
Last edited:
So swallowed my pride...
Contacted the crappy dealer, apparently La Voice is still on the website but don't produce it for the moment. They say they have to much demands for the Scala & Formula
Not sure yet when or even if they going to produce it again.
going to have a demo the 8 next week an as I can't compare to the La voice I'll bring the Moon to have something to compare.
Contacted the crappy dealer, apparently La Voice is still on the website but don't produce it for the moment. They say they have to much demands for the Scala & Formula
Not sure yet when or even if they going to produce it again.
going to have a demo the 8 next week an as I can't compare to the La voice I'll bring the Moon to have something to compare.
Not widely talked about, but I have ended up with a Cary Audio DMS-650. Superb! Wish I could have afforded the 700, but this one is no slouch.
Great looking Streamer that as you say, seldom gets a mention (but deserves one): https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2022/03/09/cary-audio-dms-650-streamer-review/
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Understood.
That also rules the Linn out - which given the quality of what you are looking at, is not a big deal.
Cno, I need to look back at my posts about my DAC search on PFM, but two things I do know it was an Aqua and it had a valve... re the build quality, the only way I can describe it, it felt like the unit was half empty and resignated when lightly tapped... I have just looked back on my PM's on PFM and I can confirm it was in fact the La Scala, but the previous model from the one you have been promoting.
Mac
I'll tell you one DAC I really was impressed with and that was the Chord Qutest, I was particularly amazed as I had previously dismissed it in favour of the RME ADI2, but that was in my old house in a smaller listening room and slightly different kit... could have saved me a packet, but no regrets buying the Bartok
Mac
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