TCP/IP Networking, Cables and Numpties

[rdale]

What the hell is it with people and audio kit. The more I look around the network audio forums and the equipment and cables aimed at them, the more I realise just how many numpities populate the planet.http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/audioquest-ethernet-cables-pt2-ethernet-cable

If you are having networking problems, look at faster routers/switches or sort out the QOS on what you have, but these really are not going to help, The TCP/IP protocol is pretty well sorted to handle out of sequence packets, lost packets, flow and congestion control, so unless you have a really poor network setup, the receiver always gets good data transfer. If not, and you suffer from dropouts then look into your network , not bling cables.

I use an Audioquest Cinnamon cable between my router and my BeagleBone Black based music server. I use Audioquest Forest between the Raspberry Pi I use as a NAS and the router. I use another Forest in my B&W MM-1/Raspberry Pi portable music system. I can't say I've done a listening test to compare them with standard cables, but they do look very nice.

There has been a recent discussion on Computer Audiophile on how on earth could ethernet cables make a difference to sound quality. A guy from Blue Jeans Cable knows a lot about how they work, and gave some useful technical details about ethernet cables. Those cables really aren't very expensive (30 dollars for 20 feet):

http://www.amazon.com/Certified-Cable-Assembled-Blue-Jeans/dp/B00FY82PEC

Computer Audiophile discussion:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/ethernet-cables-audiostream-test-17713/

 

[Chumpy]

For a nightingale, I have forked out up to £10 for ethernet 10m cables rather than much less for the much cheaper alternatives.

I accept that up to c. £30 for audio-specific digital or analogue cable is as much as one needs to spend psychologically/colour-matching ..

I still believe that digital is convenient/helpful, but your perception of what is music is best metre-stick. Even if it is real acoustic great live, or analogue recording/replay.

 

[dudywoxer]

I use an Audioquest Cinnamon cable between my router and my BeagleBone Black based music server. I use Audioquest Forest between the Raspberry Pi I use as a NAS and the router. I use another Forest in my B&W MM-1/Raspberry Pi portable music system. I can't say I've done a listening test to compare them with standard cables, but they do look very nice. There has been a recent discussion on Computer Audiophile on how on earth could ethernet cables make a difference to sound quality. A guy from Blue Jeans Cable knows a lot about how they work, and gave some useful technical details about ethernet cables. Those cables really aren't very expensive (30 dollars for 20 feet): http://www.amazon.com/Certified-Cable-Assembled-Blue-Jeans/dp/B00FY82PEC Computer Audiophile discussion: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/ethernet-cables-audiostream-test-17713/

That I'm afraid to say is audiophile nervosa mixing with computer use. It's a market that is open for exploitation. Audio networks just do not strain a wired network, if you where streaming a few films to a few tellys, plus a few audio streams, then your hard drive would slow you down before the network did.

 

[amcluesent]

I think we all know, what's really important is directional SATA cables in the NAS. A veil will be lifted, etc.

 

[drummerjohn]

All pointless if your Network Interface Cards contain cheap and nasty sockets and cheap interface processors.

All bollards anyway - move along now.

I use an Audioquest Cinnamon cable between my router and my BeagleBone Black based music server. I use Audioquest Forest between the Raspberry Pi I use as a NAS and the router. I use another Forest in my B&W MM-1/Raspberry Pi portable music system. I can't say I've done a listening test to compare them with standard cables, but they do look very nice.There has been a recent discussion on Computer Audiophile on how on earth could ethernet cables make a difference to sound quality. A guy from Blue Jeans Cable knows a lot about how they work, and gave some useful technical details about ethernet cables. Those cables really aren't very expensive (30 dollars for 20 feet):

http://www.amazon.com/Certified-Cable-Assembled-Blue-Jeans/dp/B00FY82PEC

Computer Audiophile discussion:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/ethernet-cables-audiostream-test-17713/

 

[rdale]

All pointless if your Network Interface Cards contain cheap and nasty sockets and cheap interface processors.All bollards anyway - move along now.

The BeagleBone Black i use doesn't have a network interface card - the ethernet socket is on the small board with everything else and it seems reasonably good quality to me. I don't know in what why a 'cheap interface processor' would differ from what I assume you to mean an 'expensive interface processor'. Are expensive ones less noisy or something?

 

[browellm]

rdale, stunning confession that you use foo Ethernet cables. :^

 

[johnniebaby]

rdale, stunning confession that you use foo Ethernet cables. :^

Whoda thunk it? :dunno:

 

[drummerjohn]

The network processing on that device is mainly handled by the same processor that does everything else.

A quality network card, enterprise class for servers, does not use the mainboards processor power as the card itself has it's own processor. This stops intensive CPU tasks affecting network bandwidth and vice versa.

But then would you notice if you used a quality NIC? No, as the same argument applies to this as it does the cable. It's all built to do the job of shifting data. And at audio streaming level it won't even be stressed in the slightest. If you stream audio check out how much network bandwidth you use on a 100mbps network. It will be between 0 and 1% on average.

The BeagleBone Black i use doesn't have a network interface card - the ethernet socket is on the small board with everything else and it seems reasonably good quality to me. I don't know in what why a 'cheap interface processor' would differ from what I assume you to mean an 'expensive interface processor'. Are expensive ones less noisy or something?

 

[rdale]

rdale, stunning confession that you use foo Ethernet cables. :^

No problem, I'm slightly disappointed I haven't been awarded a cat picture yet.

I can't start a discussion about the technical reasons why ethernet cables might make a difference because I haven't found any explanation yet. Ethernet doesn't depend on timing and packets can even arrive out of order. Ethernet sockets are electrical isolated (in theory) and therefore electrical noise shouldn't be a problem. However, in practice when people audition ethernet cables they feel there are sonic differences.

I read this review on the Audiostream site:

http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-ethernet-cables

Michael Lavorgna who wrote the review is not at all happy that he has found that ethernet cables make an audible difference and says "Writing About Listening To Ethernet Cables Is A Fool's Errand". I have plenty of pocket money each month and buying a few budget Audioquest ethernet cables doesn't have any impact on my ability to afford to drink beer, buy CDs etc, and I thought I would take a punt.

The music server that I use in my main system ended up being way under budget. I had planned on spending 500 euros or more on an Apple Mini, but ended up spending not much more that 100 euros on the BeagleBone Black/Linear PSU/Aluminium case that I am using. I've spent less on fancy ethernet cables than other people spend on Windows software licenses in their systems.

I am working away from home a lot at the moment, and was only back for just over a week after Christmas. I just didn't have time to do 'scientific experiments' listening to Kind of Blue five times over with and without fancy ethernet cables. However, after changing from a Musical Fidelitly V-Link to my Bel Canto uLink USB to SPDI/F adaptor along with the Audiostream ethernet cables, 3M EMI interference reduction sheeting in the BeagleBone, my ancient Marantz CD7 was sounding really quite amazingly good.

I don't have any fixed ideas about computer audio, anymore than I had fixed ideas about turntables over 35 years ago when I tried Von Neumann microphone cable, which was the hipsters phono cable of choice at that time.

 

[Tony_J]

The apparent ability of some people to detect audible differences between data cables is simply another example of the human capacity for self delusion, along with homeopathy and ouija boards.

 

[mattski]

Ha, ha ha ha - scheiße!

 

[tonerei]

Fair play to Richard coming out in the lions den with this type of product. I struggle with these type of cable also but did buy a secondhand meicord ethernet cable. Well made compared to the usual crap. The audioquest stuff looks really well made but the advantage and guarantee of working better than 'normal' cheap cables justifies a certain price mark up but not the levels exerted by the hifi industryi. There are companies that specialize in cables for medical equipment and they cost lots of money. Cables are required to be made to a high standard in the telecommunications industry and often give problems (intermittent) Not feasible unless you own dubai to cable the network in audioquest but if money is no object I can see why people would go down this route. But before you chop my head off I wouldn't be doing it myself. Would prefer to spend all that money on a better component.

 

[johnniebaby]

Fair play to Richard coming out in the lions den with this type of product. I struggle with these type of cable also but did buy a secondhand meicord ethernet cable. Well made compared to the usual crap. The audioquest stuff looks really well made but the advantage and guarantee of working better than 'normal' cheap cables justifies a certain price mark up but not the levels exerted by the hifi industryi. There are companies that specialize in cables for medical equipment and they cost lots of money. Cables are required to be made to a high standard in the telecommunications industry and often give problems (intermittent) Not feasible unless you own dubai to cable the network in audioquest but if money is no object I can see why people would go down this route. But before you chop my head off I wouldn't be doing it myself. Would prefer to spend all that money on a better component.

Audioquest guarantee that they will work "better" ?

 

[Maverick]

so bits can sound different? wow never knew that . . . . . some would says it's all a load of 01100010 01110101 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110011 01101000 01101001 01110100

harsh but fair

 

[Tw99]

The apparent ability of some people to detect audible differences between data cables is simply another example of the human capacity for self delusion, along with homeopathy and ouija boards.

+1

 

[rdale]

Audioquest guarantee that they will work "better" ?

Even if you don't believe the cables sound any different, 'works better' means that they will probably meet specs such as CAT 5/6/7, and they have decent quality plugs on each end. According to the guy from Blue Jeans Cables a lot of the ethernet cables he measured didn't meet their claimed specifications. I'm sure if you buy ethernet cables from a reputable maker (Audioquest, Blue Jeans, QED, Supra and others) they are more likely to have plugs which don't break (if that hasn't happened to you, then you probably haven't tried many ethernet cables), and meet the CAT specs.

 

[The Strat]

Blimey you guys talk a funny language.

 

[browellm]

Even if you don't believe the cables sound any different, 'works better' means that they will probably meet specs such as CAT 5/6/7, and they have decent quality plugs on each end. According to the guy from Blue Jeans Cables a lot of the ethernet cables he measured didn't meet their claimed specifications. I'm sure if you buy ethernet cables from a reputable maker (Audioquest, Blue Jeans, QED, Supra and others) they are more likely to have plugs which don't break (if that hasn't happened to you, then you probably haven't tried many ethernet cables), and meet the CAT specs.

Do you think that the world's largest companies running mission critical data centres are using boutique brand Ethernet cables to meet their SLAs?

 

[HoopsOnToast]

Is Cat6 more musical than Cat5? What do people think? :dunno:

Duh, its 1 better :doh: