Easing my way into classical music..

[Chumpy]

Try at times FM BBC Radio Third programme, and that Classic FM thing, obviously ...

 

[Non-Smoking Man]

My vinyl classical collection is a mixed bag condition wise and since I last posted here Ive been busy with my DIY cleaning process. With wet cleaning the trick is getting the slurry off the record and with this in mind I purchased a Karcher WV50 handheld window cleaner.

Results are good and Ive turned on my classical collection to try and rid them of the clicks and pops that ruin the quiet passages.

I played 2 piano LPs on Phillips which were riven with the aforesaid. Quick clean, leave to dry for 4 hours and on to the platter. The 2 LPs were Liszt piano concertos nos 1 and 2, with Brendel on piano accompanied by the London Philharmonic (Haitink) and Liszt, Sonata in B and Benediction de dieu etc played by Claudio Arrau.

I enjoyed all the performances and I think solo playing is much more up my street than with the whole orchestra going full blast. Glad to say my Cranfield Rock did well on the wow and flutter solo piano test.

Ive enjoyed the standard ballets (Nutcracker etc) Ive played, Mussorsky and Ravel ('Pictures at an Exhibition, Bolero), Handel's Fireworks and Water Music (Queen of Sheba etc), the above piano works and a recently cleaned World Record Club Mozart disc (T106) comprising Violin Concerto No.4 K218, Rondo from the Haffner Serenade, and also included is Paganini Caprice no.5 (Hyman Bress playing acc. by The English Chamber orchestra, conductor Gibson).

I like to play classical in the morning, rock in the evening and jazz and blues at night.

Just to show I am 'getting it' Im watching 5 or so classical records on eBay with a view to augmenting my collection.

Jack

 

[themadlatvian]

My vinyl classical collection is a mixed bag condition wise and since I last posted here Ive been busy with my DIY cleaning process. With wet cleaning the trick is getting the slurry off the record and with this in mind I purchased a Karcher WV50 handheld window cleaner.Results are good and Ive turned on my classical collection to try and rid them of the clicks and pops that ruin the quiet passages.

I played 2 piano LPs on Phillips which were riven with the aforesaid. Quick clean, leave to dry for 4 hours and on to the platter. The 2 LPs were Liszt piano concertos nos 1 and 2, with Brendel on piano accompanied by the London Philharmonic (Haitink) and Liszt, Sonata in B and Benediction de dieu etc played by Claudio Arrau.

I enjoyed all the performances and I think solo playing is much more up my street than with the whole orchestra going full blast. Glad to say my Cranfield Rock did well on the wow and flutter solo piano test.

Ive enjoyed the standard ballets (Nutcracker etc) Ive played, Mussorsky and Ravel ('Pictures at an Exhibition, Bolero), Handel's Fireworks and Water Music (Queen of Sheba etc), the above piano works and a recently cleaned World Record Club Mozart disc (T106) comprising Violin Concerto No.4 K218, Rondo from the Haffner Serenade, and also included is Paganini Caprice no.5 (Hyman Bress playing acc. by The English Chamber orchestra, conductor Gibson).

I like to play classical in the morning, rock in the evening and jazz and blues at night.

Just to show I am 'getting it' Im watching 5 or so classical records on eBay with a view to augmenting my collection.

Jack

Good stuff, Jack. Glad you are finding some music you enjoy.

 

[rockmeister]

My problem has always been that the field is so VAST. It's much simpler in other fields of music to grasp what one enjoys (as you said, blues etc) and then be fairly sure of a growing knowledge in that field and an ability to pick and choose. But in 'Classical' it's far too broad. The range of styles through the ages, the variety of musical groups, the Opera and Ballet sideshoots, and the emphasis on instrument and voice makes it a dazzling and lifelong study.

I inhereted a few hundred albums from my Mum. She had something from almost every composer (up to Copland anyway) and genre imaginable but where to start? Mahler said someone. NOOOO. WAY to tough to 'get'.

What's needed IMO is a way of grouping classical music into small genres, and for some kind soul to suggest ONE piece that typifies each genre, so that if interest is piqued, we can go investigate further.

Don't say 'I like classical', say 'I like baroque string quartets'

 

[Non-Smoking Man]

Agreed Rocky (can I call you that?) - after all, Rock and Pop is similarly vast and no one would ask 'do you like like Rock and Pop?' which has everything from Val Doonican to Joy Division...

 

[Von Krolock]

Good ingenuity with the Karcher there Jack.

It can be a bit hit & miss building up a collection of classical recordings, finding what appeals & what doesn't with the added complication

of different interpretations. I've still much to learn.

I was also lucky to inherit - rescued from being skipped in truth - a few classical records from my parents.

Some are sadly worn out from a distressed old stylus but others are in top nick. A couple of Decca Ashkenazy Mozart piano concertos

& an EMI recording of Grieg's Holberg Suite are regulars on the deck amongst others.

It's great to discover new music, but opera? - no not yet!

 

[Non-Smoking Man]

Richard - Im with you on opera. I confess the only bit Ive heard which I would hunt down would be the extract in Shawshank Redemption (whatever that was..Callas?).

Ive been looking at definitions of various categories of Classical music and to start off, and following Rocky's advice above, Im going to concentrate on Concertos (orchestral music with a focus on one solo instrument), Chamber Music (comprising ensembles of between 3-5 or so individual players) and solo material.

(I forgot to mention the killer organ track that we multi horn system enthusiasts rave about - Toccata in D Fugue; this always gets an airing at Scalford..)

Jack

 

[rockmeister]

I can't listen to recorded opera, but a visit to a decently sung and produced opera? I bloody loved!

Started simple with Traviata and the ENO in London and never looked back. And what a nice night out to boot.

Must do IMO.

 

[JANDL100]

Opera - hmm, despite being a rabid fan of much classical music I'm pretty much allergic to opera. I just hate the over-emoting and posturing.

Some exceptions I would recommend, very different from each other, mind ....

Handel Xerxes - especially this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/Handel-Xerxes-Arthaus-100077-NTSC/dp/B006ZV6XL8/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1422001912&sr=1-1&keywords=handel+xerxes+murray

An endless source of fun, and Valerie Masterson is gorgeous.

And Philip Glass's Akhnaten - sadly, not available on DVD. Which is a bit sad and tragic given the endless reams of cr*p you can get on DVD. :roll:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Glass-akhnaten-philip/dp/B0000A9DZX/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1422001999&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=glass+akhnaten

After hearing some of it on radio I saw this at the ENO and was utterly blown away - this is not opera as I know and generally loathe it!

The CD set is good, too. The sq is fab.

 

[Non-Smoking Man]

Thankyou Rocky and Jerry.

Ive developed a strategy for cutting through the 'vastness' problem ('where to start', 'where to specialise' etc): I go to the '300 Hall of Fame' site, separate out the concertos, chamber music and solo pieces ; then I go to my shelves to see if I have them; if I find a copy I clean it, dry it and play it; then I shelve separately. If the copy is irredeemably unplayable after cleaning for reasons of age, bad treatment I chuck it out and put it on the wanted list. (To be included in the recommendations provided by this thread.)

One controversial choice which made the top twenty (in 2013) was the theme to a Fanatasy Game (Final Fantasy) composed by Uematsu - what do we make of that?

 

[Non-Smoking Man]

Ive just been listening to 'Slowhand' the LP by Eric Clapton. This is one of my favourite late listening records. The reasons are numerous but principal amongst them is the excellence of the female backing vocalists. Clapton is, perhaps, aware of his weakness in this area (he only ever sang on one track for John Mayall, although Mayall was nothing special himself) and astutely the arrangements abound with lashings of the wonderful Marcy Levy and Yvonne Elliman.

I'm struggling to find an equivalence in Classical music.

I doubt whether I will find it in opera (though im not writing it off) - often the singing is in a foreign language and I find the whole thing inpenetrable and divorced from anything I can relate to. I dont doubt there is emotion in opera but its inaccessible to me at the moment.

Given that the vast majority of classical pieces are instrumentals (much like swing in this respect where vocalists were only grudgingly tolerated for the most part), what can I / we turn to for an equivalence to the beauty of a great bluesy vocal?

Well it could be the range of expression of thegreat solo instruments - the piano and violin.

I can relate to the emotion that they evoke and maybe thats a way in.

I'll know Ive got the message when I play an old favourite rock, or blues track and I find it lacking compared to a piece of classical music.

 

[68rednose]

Richard - Im with you on opera. I confess the only bit Ive heard which I would hunt down would be the extract in Shawshank Redemption (whatever that was..Callas?).

Duettino - Sull'aria

from opera "Le nozze di Figaro (The Marriage of Figaro)"

Composed by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

Libretto by Lorenzo da Ponte (uncredited)

Performed by Edith Mathis (uncredited) and Gundula Janowitz (uncredited)

Chor und Orchester der Deutschen Oper Berlin

Conducted by Karl Böhm

Courtesy of Deutsche Grammophon, by arraingement with PolyGram Special Markets

Info found here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111161/soundtrack?ref_=tt_trv_snd

Copland - Apallachian Spring Suite

Beethoven - Symphony 3 Eroica

Tchaikovsky - Piano Conecerto Nr 1

are among my favourites and IMO easy to get acquainted to.

Just playing Orff - Carmina Burana. But just stopped in the middle of it

-not wise to play at full volume at 02:00 when wife and kids are sleeping :doh:

 

[JANDL100]

.... I'm struggling to find an equivalence in Classical music...... what can I / we turn to for an equivalence to the beauty of a great bluesy vocal?..... I'll know Ive got the message when I play an old favourite rock, or blues track and I find it lacking compared to a piece of classical music.

Well, I think that's fair enough.

My listening is 95% or more classical, but I'd struggle without the crucial 5% that isn't.

Why do you expect to find it all in one genre? .... here's a tip .... listen to a wide range of music and you can have it all! :^

Having said that, for vocal beauty in classical, try Mozart Requiem or his Great C minor Mass. Or Richard Strauss's Four Last Songs. Just as examples. They don't come more vocally exquisite than that in any genre, imo.

But like any genre, there's a "vibe" to classical that you have to get used to and be sympathetic to.

It's fair enough if you just don't get it, imo. I find that in jazz, for the most part - when they start to noodle it makes my skin crawl. There are some places that we as individuals are just not meant to go!

 

[Non-Smoking Man]

Im hesitatingly moving forwards in my search for classical music I understand and enjoy (appreciate might be a good word for it). I already include most of the Ballet music, especially Tchaikovsky, that I have, Toccatta in D, the Handel I mentioned, and, now, I think im going to try some more French composers having enjoyed this album: 'Three French Violin Favourites' Francescatti plays Chausson: 'Poeme', Ravel:Tzigane and Saint-saens: Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso. CBS mono brg 72247. (New York Phil. con. Bernstein.

(Someone warned me off Bernstein once with the accusation he overdramatises..any thoughts?)

 

[themadlatvian]

Bernstein? Depends on what he's playing or conducting. His Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique with the New Yorkers is nothing short of miraculous. Good for his own stuff of course, also Haydn, Mahler, Copland, Stravinsky. Personally I avoid his Beethoven and Brahms - doesn't fit for me.

 

[SSM]

Bernstein. :? A conductor with a distinctive style. You either like it or find it excessive, like as if the music is now Beethoven-&-Bernstein or Brahms-&-Bernstein. His interpretations can be laden with over-theatrical emotional gestures. Have to agree with John, his Beethoven and Brahms don't sound 'proper'. I'd add Mozart and R.Strauss there too. Heck, I'm even staying away from his acclaimed Mahler these days. It is rather high-'cholesterol' for me.

The best thing he has done on record is Wagner's 'Tristan und Isolde'. Here, his usual excesses were swept under the carpet.

SS

 

[Von Krolock]

Try Saint-Saens 'Organ Symphony' no.3 which features an organ in two of the movements.

It's quite a large scale work & might not fit in with your current interest in concertos etc but the organ might be interesting through your horns.

 

[tones]

Ive just been listening to 'Slowhand' the LP by Eric Clapton. This is one of my favourite late listening records. The reasons are numerous but principal amongst them is the excellence of the female backing vocalists. Clapton is, perhaps, aware of his weakness in this area (he only ever sang on one track for John Mayall, although Mayall was nothing special himself) and astutely the arrangements abound with lashings of the wonderful Marcy Levy and Yvonne Elliman.I'm struggling to find an equivalence in Classical music.

... what can I / we turn to for an equivalence to the beauty of a great bluesy vocal?

I'll know Ive got the message when I play an old favourite rock, or blues track and I find it lacking compared to a piece of classical music.

It seems to me that the messages are fundamentally different, and this simply has to be accepted and essentially a different musical language learned and appreciated. And if you can't, then classical is not for you. I'm the reverse; as a nearly exclusively classical listener, I struggle with the idea of there being "beauty" in a "great bluesy vocal". This is not to say there isn't per se, only to my way of perceiving beauty in music. Classical prides itself in perfect performance, or as near perfect as is achievable, whereas a certain roughness is the very essence of rock/blues. For example, listen to a jazz trumpeter, and then listen to the likes of Maurice André, with his pure, burnished tone. Classical vocal composers set their singers stern technical challenges, which have to be met before the aesthetics even begin. It is an art music, as opposed to the blues/gospel/rock tradition that derives from ordinary folk making music that echoes their everyday experiences of life.

Not of course that ordinary music is absent from classical - Bach used many dance-like melodies in his church cantatas (some of the bass lines in Bach are truly extraordinary), and the Russian composers dipped into their wonderful double tradition of the music of the Orthodox Church and the great Russian folk music (as did Brahms and Dvorak with their Hungarian and Slavonic Dances respectively). However, they are incorporated into a formal style that sounds strange to the average pop/rock listener. There is emotion and feeling aplenty there - but you need to get used to the language.

 

[Chumpy]

Real meaningful 'soul' can be nurtured from any source, often from fine 'Classical' or 'Non-Classical' (i.e. pop-rock-blues-wotever) fine noises/nostalgic connections.

Adequate hearing/basic human comforts-suitable singing-playing add much to the psychological susceptibility of the usual human lover.

I like some Eric Clapton great songs, but agree that (albeit often institutionally) 'Classical' is deemed officially to be more worthwhile.

I suspect that official institutions will for longer (if we do not even more prematurely explode) pretend that 'Classical' is more worthwhile.

Bollox-Ovaries-wotever.

Too often Classical is too formal/not real ... shirts and ties and conductors my arse.

 

[themadlatvian]

Real meaningful 'soul' can be nurtured from any source, often from fine 'Classical' or 'Non-Classical' (i.e. pop-rock-blues-wotever) fine noises/nostalgic connections.Adequate hearing/basic human comforts-suitable singing-playing add much to the psychological susceptibility of the usual human lover.

I like some Eric Clapton great songs, but agree that (albeit often institutionally) 'Classical' is deemed officially to be more worthwhile.

I suspect that official institutions will for longer (if we do not even more prematurely explode) pretend that 'Classical' is more worthwhile.

Bollox-Ovaries-wotever.

Too often Classical is too formal/not real ... shirts and ties and conductors my arse.

Couldn't disagree more.