Recommend me a phono stage.

[Ady]

I'd like to demo some different phono stages in my system. Budget would be 3k. I don't dislike what I currently have ( IA PS3MK2 with Jenson caps) but feel that urge to try something else. Any suggestions?
Cheers Ady

 

[antonio66]

If you fancy a valve phonostage, Bigbottle BB3, here's a review
Feedback from "Lurch"

A few weeks back, in a wanted classified on AoS, I made a comment Re having a Tron Seven Ultimate and getting a BB3, (I bought to it in our classifieds at HiFiwigwam) that I would do an a/b and report back.

Well I've had the BB3 in my system for a couple of weeks now, and all I can say is WOW!!! The Tron Seven Ultimate has spent 13. 5 of the last 14 days impersonating a doorstop, let me explain.

A few weeks beforehand I had acquired an early (serial number 1205) Garrard 401 with SME 3009 s2 which I'd fitted with an A&R P77Mg and it was producing a wonderful rich though not as detailed sound as my Bardo/Conqueror/Axia combo via the TSU. A sound I much preferred that made me realise that I had moved too close to that line that exists between musicality and hifi. It was at this point I also realised I wasn't at all happy with my vinyl front end, what I needed was a sound profile halfway between the 401 & Bardo.

I then changed arms on the 401, sticking the Conqueror & Axia on it and bingo, I had the sound I wanted. Richness, body AND Detail. At this point I was seriously considering selling the Bardo in favour of the 401.

Move on a few days, Bardo still on the floor and & 401 rehoused in a heavy plinth I'd been given instead of the hollow lightweight 60s plinth it came with, when the BB3 arrived. I did an a/B against the TSU for a couple of hours then decided the Bardo needed another chance given the sound signature the BB was giving out.

I put the Conqueror back on the Bardo and fired it all back up, and damn, there it was, the sound I was looking for.

The BB redeemed the Bardo, changing the decks sound sognature to one with air, space, body, detail and richness. Bere in mind also that this is what the BB did with new valves and only a few hours on the clock. I did put the TSU back in but it only stayed in the system for 3 tracks before becoming an expensive doorstop.

Don't get me wrong the TSU is a fantastic phonostage, but the BB3 in my system and to my ears gives me the sound signature I've been chasing, though I didn't really know what I wanted until I heard it.

The BB3 is now fully bedded in and sounding absolutely fantastic, better than it did initially, and I didn't think that was possible.

So when I get round to it the will be a newly serviced (by GT) 2018 SPEC, TSU in the classifieds.

As for the 401 it's now been fitted with an RB250 and the P77Mg and is doing Stirling service in my 2nd system, so will also be selling the 3009 s2.

A solid state the Avalon BT2

 

[karma67]

my vote would be for a paradise or a vida.

 

[Ady]

my vote would be for a paradise or a vida.

Thanks for that. I think I need to start a list and start doing some research.

 

[Lurch]

Only problem with the Vida is its either 10 or 100 Ohms unless you fork out another £500+ for the adjustable loading thingy kretrofiable to std Vida) so basically the same limitation as your current IA.

 

[mac72]

Vida has loading 42 and 400 ohm , 400 ohm could be dropped to any desired value below that with RCA splitter and loading plug

 

[martiansunrise]

I've got an RCM Sensor 2 here at the moment. It replaced a BB3. It is outstanding. Covers most of the loading/gain settings anyone would need.

 

[It Cost How Much!?!]

Allnic H-3000 II plus, Trilogy 907 is where I would start. Not heard the Paradise in a decent system yet. Not a huge fan of the Vida as it's not that flexible.

 

[Ady]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I'll research them over the next few days. Obviously what I really need to do is actually listen to these suggestions. Maybe I should try and organise a bake off to gain some experience.
Cheers Ady

 

[Amber Audio]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I'll research them over the next few days. Obviously what I really need to do is actually listen to these suggestions. Maybe I should try and organise a bake off to gain some experience.
Cheers Ady

If you’re open to used a Luxman EQ-500 might just be in budget and is the best stage I’ve owned, very flexible and sounds absolutely fab.

Others I’ve had that might float your boat are the Trilogy 907 already mentioned and I thought a bit overpriced compared to what their 906 gives you, Whest 30RDT high hopes but didn’t blow me away and Cyrus Phono Sig + PSX, still have the Cyrus which takes 4 Arm/Carts and is very flexible with MC, not so much with MM which seems almost an afterthought. Best bet is try and get a couple on home loan sale/return or organise a bake off as you say. Obviously it’s gonna depend on what cart/carts you have or aim to get as to what settings you need to have available on the stage.

 

[mac72]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I'll research them over the next few days. Obviously what I really need to do is actually listen to these suggestions. Maybe I should try and organise a bake off to gain some experience.
Cheers Ady

I've sold Vida in the end but there was very little between Paradise and Vida, RCM Sensor 2 is very underrated and worth checking out , mentioned above Luxman if you like tube stage , I never been disappointed with Whest stages neither .
Guy Sergeant from Pure Sound on PFM :
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/members/pure-sound.7898/
used to offer Vida home loan, send him a message or contact through the website:
http://www.puresound.info/
Audio Emotion has ex-demo Luxman EQ-500 for sale:
https://www.audioemotion.co.uk/luxman-eq-500-vacuum-tube-phono-amplifier---ex-demo-25147-p.asp
bit over the budget @£3990 but there must be some room for negotiation as it's been sitting in pre-owned section for a while , they are nice people and in most cases you can return stuff if not happy .
You're bit too far away to borrow my Paradise but try to find someone local to have a listen , it might be last phono stage you ever needed .
Lot's of options at your budget .

 

[DomT]

Another vote for the Trilogy 907. I had the 906 on home demo and the 907 is worth the extra if you have a revealing system. The Trilogy has flexible cartridge loadings and doesn’t take up a lot of room in the rack. It has a filigree detailed sound yet warm with beautiful tonal textures.

At this price point all are good it just depends on what you are looking for. My heavily customised Audion Premier was different being more dynamic as is my Audio Research SP17 phono stage but neither have the filigree magic of the Trilogy 907. It’s really hard to explain how it sounds but it’s rather special.

 

[AJSki2fly]

I'd like to demo some different phono stages in my system. Budget would be 3k. I don't dislike what I currently have ( IA PS3MK2 with Jenson caps) but feel that urge to try something else. Any suggestions?
Cheers Ady

At the start of my vinyl re-entry 7 years ago I had an upgraded Cambridge Audio - Azur 640P, very respectable and detailed for the low cost hooked up to a Project Experience II, then upgrade of TT, Arm and Cart so moved to LFD MMC - a wonderfully detailed phono stage, but very picky about cables and positioning in relation to other kit, it was better with MM than MC. After 3+ years of annoyance from trying different things I sold it and changed power amp and temporarily had a Sonetteer Sedley, now this really is a giant killer of a Phono Stage for the cost of it in comparison, in fact nearly as good as the LFD IMO, and quieter.

So having saved some pennies I wanted to take the next step to a neutral/transparent phono stage giving open sound stage and I was very lucky to pick up one of these pre-owned which I tried at home for a week before buying. https://www.audiovalve.info/shop/pre-amplifiers/sunilda/, the Sunilda is magic and well worth its cost even at full price. Also if you want to tweak you can do some Tube swapping in it and they are not expensive. I run Genelux Gold Lions in it and this gives a lovely mid and top end.

I primarily use a Benz Micro LP-S or Goldring 2500 MM feeding an Audiolab 8000CDQ (as pre-amp), not expensive pre-amp just neutral, then into a Krell KSA-80 power amp feeding Wilson Benesch Vectors. The result is a dynamic detailed soundstage with great depth, with a good recordings it sounds fantastic. The Sunilda is a big part of this IMO.

 

[mac72]

Allnic H-3000 II plus, Trilogy 907 is where I would start. Not heard the Paradise in a decent system yet. Not a huge fan of the Vida as it's not that flexible.

I agree about Vida if your cartridge needs loading higher than 400ohm , otherwise as mentioned loading plugs give all flexibility in the world (below said one) but to be fair not many high end carts have impedance higher than 10ohm as it means quite few coils and sort of defeats the idea of Moving Coil.

 

[DomT]

Another vote for the Trilogy 907. I had the 906 on home demo and the 907 is worth the extra if you have a revealing system. The Trilogy has flexible cartridge loadings and doesn’t take up a lot of room in the rack. It has a filigree detailed sound yet warm with beautiful tonal textures.

At this price point all are good it just depends on what you are looking for. My heavily customised Audion Premier was different being more dynamic as is my Audio Research SP17 phono stage but neither have the filigree magic of the Trilogy 907. It’s really hard to explain how it sounds but it’s rather special.

Just updating this note to try and describe what the Trilogy 907 does compared to my Audion or Audio Research SP17 phonostage. The Trilogy 907 is like a Koetsu Urishi Blue and the custom Audion Premier and Audio Research are like a Dynavector XX2 by comparison. Hopefully this will make sense to someone looking for a phonostage at this price point.

 

[Ady]

Just updating this note to try and describe what the Trilogy 907 does compared to my Audion or Audio Research SP17 phonostage. The Trilogy 907 is like a Koetsu Urishi Blue and the custom Audion Premier and Audio Research are like a Dynavector XX2 by comparison. Hopefully this will make sense to someone looking for a phonostage at this price point.

@DomT thanks for that. I think I hear what you are saying unfortunately I do not have a lot of experience of listening/comparing different phono stages in my system.
Cheers Ady

 

[Ady]

I agree about Vida if your cartridge needs loading higher than 400ohm , otherwise as mentioned loading plugs give all flexibility in the world (below said one) but to be fair not many high end carts have impedance higher than 10ohm as it means quite few coils and sort of defeats the idea of Moving Coil.

@mac thanks for that. I have to confess I'm not that technically minded in relation to matching cartridges. I work on the basis of listening to one and if it sounds better to me that's enough. I am currently using a DV Te Kiatora Rua which I like in my system and would plan on replacing like for like as and when it becomes necessary.
cheers Ady

 

[mac72]

@mac thanks for that. I have to confess I'm not that technically minded in relation to matching cartridges. I work on the basis of listening to one and if it sounds better to me that's enough. I am currently using a DV Te Kiatora Rua which I like in my system and would plan on replacing like for like as and when it becomes necessary.
cheers Ady

Rule of thumb is loading shouldn't be lower than 5-10 times internal impedance of the cartridge to tame "ringing" at high frequencies, of course you can go higher .
Dynavector says your cartridge should be loaded above 30ohm , if you borrow Vida let me know and I could send you RCA splitters and various loading plugs I used with mine but "low" setting should be fine .
If you travel London/Essex way you're welcome to bring your phono and have a listen to Paradise stage , good luck with your search .

 

[DomT]

@Ady Having read up a little about your stage you are likely to find 'different' rather than 'better' although one person's 'different' is another persons 'better'. So I have another idea for you. When I wanted to upgrade my Audion Premier phonostage I asked the UK distributor to upgrade it using better parts. The difference was incredible as I have reported on here in the past. Maybe if you like your current phonostage that you could upgrade some of the components? If you speak to Peter at Deco Audio he could advise you (he did my custom work) and is very experienced on doing upgrade to phono stages and amplifiers. I believe that he also used to or still does design phonostages.

I used to have a DV DRT1S and whilst I haven't heard the DV Te Kiatora Rua my DRT1S worked very well into an SUT and the Audion that had no ability to adjust loadings and also into the Trilogy that does have the ability to adjust loadings.

Maybe see if you can borrow a stage or two or better still organise a phonostage bake-off? It doesn't have to be a big deal just a few wammers and some phono stages. The differences should be readily apparent in your system. At least it could confirm how much your existing stage works well in your system. The wammers that I have met have all been very helpful and friendly.

 

[bandit pilot]

Gold Note ph10 with the power supply is a seriously good stage with loads of flexibility